i have been thinking through the most complicated of his problems from what i understand, the eye will one day consume him and he can do nothing to stop it yet, if it were removed from him, he would die since he was dying before
[ Ava reads the texts. Reads them again. She has a very, very bad feeling she knows exactly what Rafa's going to offer. ]
It seems like any human wrapped up in one of the Entities eventually succumbs or is killed by their 'patron'. I suspect if he resists too much or too long, the same thing will happen. So you want to make it so he can't die so it can be removed from him somehow.
Wow, already gonna stack the guilt on there, huh. You act like this is it, this is the only solution. You're right that I don't approve. Jon has no impulse control and he doesn't realize what this will do to him.
But you haven't even said whether or not he wants to be a vampire. My feelings don't matter if he wants it. So, does he?
[ He'll stack on all the guilt he needs to if it changes her mind. But also: ]
not yet. you were one of his reasons why not you, and alessandro, and anderson, and the sun although i have a solution for the last one.
however the point of telling you this was not to stack on guilt
it was because jon's reaction to a possible solution was to think of a dozen reasons why not and yet the eye continues to consume him, and force him to do things that are clearly abhorrent to him
i am afraid that the real reason he said no is something more insidious. he appears unable to countenance the thought of a real solution he said that taking the beholding was his choice. i am afraid that it will remain his choice even if it is his undoing that there is a part of him that wants it, even needs it. much as an addict will continue to buy more opium, even while it addles their minds and destroys their livelihoods
[ Fuck off, Rafa, you're not her dad or her sire, you can't do that. 8( even if it's working ]
I could've told you that. Jon likes what he does. He'd like it more if he had absolutely no connections to people. I think he's managed to calm down a little bit with Martin here. Overall, though, all he does is piss people off but that doesn't seem to deter him at all. I agree that it's an addiction. It feels like everything he seeks out or experiences becomes some kind of addiction to him.
[ Like vampires, now. ]
It's becoming his choice to damn himself. I feel like he's slipping away from me, though some of that's my own fault. He doesn't understand moderation at all.
yes he told me that he was yours. that is another thing we need to speak about i think
[ Tell him he's not your dad one more time, young lady. ]
but you are right. he is playing with fire in many ways, in fact. i do not like anything about what has happened between him and nick scratch, or dorian gray dorian is my favourite witch. were it any other person he is the first one i would have gone to for help about this, but i know he will not help jon and anderson is even more of a problem he has already tried to exorcise him, before anything could be done about saving jon's life
problems upon problems.
i have always believed strongly in choice, ava what happened to you is something i would never do. to turn someone against their will, that is not what i do choice must be respected. but if the mind making the choice is not thinking clearly
it would be better for jon to live, and hate me, than not live at all so i will save him, even if it is against his will
but i would prefer it if he would save himself. we must convince him, ava we have to change his mind, and save him from this entity and from himself.
[ Christ, Jon, you just can't keep your mouth shut, can you. ]
I know about Anderson. I'm aware about Nick and Dorian, too.
Jon will fight us tooth and nail. I don't think he can imagine life without the Eye any longer. And Martin has changed, too, when he died. I think Jon is inclined to remain as he is in part for Martin...but I think he'd do that even if Martin was still fine.
I can talk to him but I don't think he's going to listen. He'll have excuse after excuse as to why we can't do this. I think he feels guilty, too, about all that's happened at home. That if he has the Eye, he can fix it, he can protect people. If he goes back to being human, he can't do that.
do you not think that this is precisely what the eye wants him to think? it is sentient after all, and sane sentient creatures will do whatever it takes to ensure their own advancement the eye is no different. it wants to have a host it wants to be alive and be fed so it convinces jon that he wants what it does that he must have it within him
i expect the lonely does the same to martin
that is what we must overcome if we are to save jon's life and martin's life
we will need someone to work magic sufficient to remove such powerful entitities which is no easy task, but assuming it can be done, we must then have a way of keeping them alive only then can they be in their true minds again, and make a real choice. it does not have to be vampirism but there must be a way to heal them. and jon has been good at alienating three very powerful people who could have potentially helped him i do not think that is coincidence, do you?
I'm sure at least half of it is the Eye but I also don't think it's just that. It's Jon. I don't know if it's just who Jon is or if it's what he's become at his time in the Institute, but in the end, I don't know if it matters. It's who he is now. I want to help him but I feel like he doesn't want that help.
I don't think it's coincidence. But I don't know anyone who can remove entities. I've wanted to try but I'm afraid it'll kill him and I was never formally taught blood magic. He wouldn't let us do that, though. Whether it's the Eye or Jon himself, he'd think we were betraying him.
I've heard good things about Magnus. Maybe Anya and I could tag team him with Dominate. We could try to get him free by following our combined wills. Never did that before. But that's a form of control too.
I think biting him did some of that? Made him less focused on the Eye, drowned it out.
well that is a better solution if you wanted to try
it is a form of compulsion, yes? i can do that with blood but he would have to drink, and i think the eye would remove it from his system like those curses
I know you don't want to hurt him. I trust you, I do.
[ ... ]
Do you think the side effects of being a Ghoul or...a thrall would keep him safe if we ripped the Eye out of him? I can't even understand how it works. There has to be a way to put distance between him and it.
thralls become stronger, faster, more hardy through drinking my blood, but it is an addiction like you said over time that addiction makes them pliant and obedient to the one whose blood they drink
garlic is the cure. it takes the taint from their bodies you could try that on your ghouls, i do not know if they are the same
but at any rate the added strength is temporary thralls die in time. being one might grant him added strength in the moment, perhaps enough to survive his own death. but we would have to cure him or he would simply be attached to me instead of the eye
Ghouls are kind of the same. Stronger, faster, can heal faster. They age so much slower. But they're so addicted and there's no cure to the blood bond. It's horrible.
He'd hate us and I don't want to hurt him that way. He'll never trust us and it'll just make it worse. I got pissed at him the other day and he thought I was abandoning him.
I know. I like him a lot. He's a good person. He makes shitty fucking decisions and doesn't know how to stay out of trouble. But...
He probably values your opinion and thinks you'd be disappointed.
He used his power, intentionally or not, and found out my Dominant was going to die. And then told him without asking if he wanted to know. And so my friend was depressed and fell off the drinking wagon for a fucking month. He's still out of sorts. I've been going with him to every bar to keep him from drowning himself in liquor.
that was my guess also, you are very defensive about it perhaps i was right :)
but yes, i am talking about cullen. i told jon i would kill him if he made an attempt. jon thinks he may be capable of it it is why i thought magic would be the key to removing the eye from him
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winterfish
no subject
Date: 2019-11-03 03:45 pm (UTC)i have been thinking through the most complicated of his problems
from what i understand, the eye will one day consume him and he can do nothing to stop it
yet, if it were removed from him, he would die since he was dying before
i think i may have found a solution.
no subject
Date: 2019-11-03 03:50 pm (UTC)It seems like any human wrapped up in one of the Entities eventually succumbs or is killed by their 'patron'.
I suspect if he resists too much or too long, the same thing will happen.
So you want to make it so he can't die so it can be removed from him somehow.
no subject
Date: 2019-11-03 03:51 pm (UTC)you know of what i speak, i'm sure. the solution is obvious to one of our kind
but jon thought you would not approve
that you would prefer he die, or be consumed, than become a vampire.
is he right?
no subject
Date: 2019-11-03 03:55 pm (UTC)You act like this is it, this is the only solution.
You're right that I don't approve.
Jon has no impulse control and he doesn't realize what this will do to him.
But you haven't even said whether or not he wants to be a vampire.
My feelings don't matter if he wants it.
So, does he?
no subject
Date: 2019-11-03 04:06 pm (UTC)not yet.
you were one of his reasons why not
you, and alessandro, and anderson, and the sun
although i have a solution for the last one.
however the point of telling you this was not to stack on guilt
it was because jon's reaction to a possible solution was to think of a dozen reasons why not
and yet the eye continues to consume him, and force him to do things that are clearly abhorrent to him
i am afraid that the real reason he said no is something more insidious.
he appears unable to countenance the thought of a real solution
he said that taking the beholding was his choice.
i am afraid that it will remain his choice even if it is his undoing
that there is a part of him that wants it, even needs it. much as an addict will continue to buy more opium, even while it addles their minds and destroys their livelihoods
i am afraid that he does not want to be cured.
no subject
Date: 2019-11-03 04:17 pm (UTC)even if it's working]I could've told you that.
Jon likes what he does.
He'd like it more if he had absolutely no connections to people.
I think he's managed to calm down a little bit with Martin here.
Overall, though, all he does is piss people off but that doesn't seem to deter him at all.
I agree that it's an addiction.
It feels like everything he seeks out or experiences becomes some kind of addiction to him.
[ Like vampires, now. ]
It's becoming his choice to damn himself.
I feel like he's slipping away from me, though some of that's my own fault.
He doesn't understand moderation at all.
no subject
Date: 2019-11-03 04:23 pm (UTC)he told me that he was yours.
that is another thing we need to speak about i think
[ Tell him he's not your dad one more time, young lady. ]
but you are right. he is playing with fire
in many ways, in fact. i do not like anything about what has happened between him and nick scratch, or dorian gray
dorian is my favourite witch. were it any other person he is the first one i would have gone to for help about this, but i know he will not help jon
and anderson is even more of a problem
he has already tried to exorcise him, before anything could be done about saving jon's life
problems upon problems.
i have always believed strongly in choice, ava
what happened to you is something i would never do. to turn someone against their will, that is not what i do
choice must be respected.
but if the mind making the choice is not thinking clearly
it would be better for jon to live, and hate me, than not live at all
so i will save him, even if it is against his will
but i would prefer it if he would save himself.
we must convince him, ava
we have to change his mind, and save him from this entity
and from himself.
no subject
Date: 2019-11-03 04:45 pm (UTC)I know about Anderson.
I'm aware about Nick and Dorian, too.
Jon will fight us tooth and nail.
I don't think he can imagine life without the Eye any longer.
And Martin has changed, too, when he died.
I think Jon is inclined to remain as he is in part for Martin...but I think he'd do that even if Martin was still fine.
I can talk to him but I don't think he's going to listen.
He'll have excuse after excuse as to why we can't do this.
I think he feels guilty, too, about all that's happened at home.
That if he has the Eye, he can fix it, he can protect people.
If he goes back to being human, he can't do that.
no subject
Date: 2019-11-03 04:51 pm (UTC)it is sentient after all, and sane sentient creatures will do whatever it takes to ensure their own advancement
the eye is no different. it wants to have a host
it wants to be alive and be fed
so it convinces jon that he wants what it does
that he must have it within him
i expect the lonely does the same to martin
that is what we must overcome if we are to save jon's life
and martin's life
we will need someone to work magic sufficient to remove such powerful entitities
which is no easy task, but assuming it can be done, we must then have a way of keeping them alive
only then can they be in their true minds again, and make a real choice.
it does not have to be vampirism
but there must be a way to heal them. and jon has been good at alienating three very powerful people who could have potentially helped him
i do not think that is coincidence, do you?
no subject
Date: 2019-11-03 06:19 pm (UTC)It's Jon.
I don't know if it's just who Jon is or if it's what he's become at his time in the Institute, but in the end, I don't know if it matters.
It's who he is now.
I want to help him but I feel like he doesn't want that help.
I don't think it's coincidence.
But I don't know anyone who can remove entities.
I've wanted to try but I'm afraid it'll kill him and I was never formally taught blood magic.
He wouldn't let us do that, though.
Whether it's the Eye or Jon himself, he'd think we were betraying him.
no subject
Date: 2019-11-03 08:51 pm (UTC)but he has not the freedom to make such decisions without the eye's influence
unless we could suppress it in some way, to let him think beyond its reach
are there any witches you trust? as i say i would consult dorian, but he will not help jon
i suppose i could reach out to magnus bane...
no subject
Date: 2019-11-04 10:30 pm (UTC)Maybe Anya and I could tag team him with Dominate.
We could try to get him free by following our combined wills.
Never did that before.
But that's a form of control too.
I think biting him did some of that?
Made him less focused on the Eye, drowned it out.
no subject
Date: 2019-11-04 10:32 pm (UTC)it is a form of compulsion, yes?
i can do that with blood
but he would have to drink, and i think the eye would remove it from his system like those curses
no subject
Date: 2019-11-04 10:34 pm (UTC)See if it's possible.
She's older than I am.
Christ, Rafa, you mean make him a Ghoul?
I could do that but he'd hate it.
It'd be awful.
no subject
Date: 2019-11-04 10:35 pm (UTC)no we call them thralls
it is reversible
but i would not do it, anyway
i wish him no harm of any kind, ava
i want to help him.
no subject
Date: 2019-11-04 10:42 pm (UTC)Because Ghouls kind of get addicted to it.
I know you don't want to hurt him.
I trust you, I do.
[ ... ]
Do you think the side effects of being a Ghoul or...a thrall would keep him safe if we ripped the Eye out of him?
I can't even understand how it works.
There has to be a way to put distance between him and it.
no subject
Date: 2019-11-04 10:47 pm (UTC)over time that addiction makes them pliant and obedient to the one whose blood they drink
garlic is the cure. it takes the taint from their bodies
you could try that on your ghouls, i do not know if they are the same
but at any rate the added strength is temporary
thralls die in time.
being one might grant him added strength in the moment, perhaps enough to survive his own death. but we would have to cure him or he would simply be attached to me instead of the eye
no subject
Date: 2019-11-04 11:27 pm (UTC)Stronger, faster, can heal faster.
They age so much slower.
But they're so addicted and there's no cure to the blood bond.
It's horrible.
He'd hate us and I don't want to hurt him that way.
He'll never trust us and it'll just make it worse.
I got pissed at him the other day and he thought I was abandoning him.
no subject
Date: 2019-11-04 11:30 pm (UTC)everyone thinks that he is so difficult
if they knew the sweetness in him
every time i speak to him he thinks he is in trouble
why were you angry with him what happened?
no subject
Date: 2019-11-04 11:40 pm (UTC)I like him a lot.
He's a good person.
He makes shitty fucking decisions and doesn't know how to stay out of trouble.
But...
He probably values your opinion and thinks you'd be disappointed.
He used his power, intentionally or not, and found out my Dominant was going to die.
And then told him without asking if he wanted to know.
And so my friend was depressed and fell off the drinking wagon for a fucking month.
He's still out of sorts.
I've been going with him to every bar to keep him from drowning himself in liquor.
no subject
Date: 2019-11-04 11:47 pm (UTC)your boyfriend is hawke?
no subject
Date: 2019-11-04 11:56 pm (UTC)I don't have a boyfriend.
Why do you listen to Jon instead of asking me?
[ DAD, PLEASE. ]
no subject
Date: 2019-11-04 11:58 pm (UTC)but did you know that hawke's friend has threatened to kill jon??
[ HE DOESN'T APPROVE OF THIS BOYFRIEND, AVA. ]
no subject
Date: 2019-11-05 12:01 am (UTC)And he's not
and you didn't talk to me about it.
And are you talking about Cullen?
He kicked our fucking door in.
That guy's on my shitlist too.
no subject
Date: 2019-11-05 12:05 am (UTC)also, you are very defensive about it
perhaps i was right :)
but yes, i am talking about cullen.
i told jon i would kill him if he made an attempt. jon thinks he may be capable of it
it is why i thought magic would be the key to removing the eye from him
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